1 00:01:22,430 --> 00:01:27,780 I'm not at all sure that fiat is necessarily the Fiat Motor Corporation - the Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino. 2 00:01:28,510 --> 00:01:34,609 That Fiat has nothing to do with any fiat lux. 3 00:01:35,790 --> 00:01:41,620 It was simply the protagonist of an important moment in the industrial development of Italy. 4 00:01:42,349 --> 00:01:49,930 And that moment has in fact remained unresolved and has left a lot of gaps behind it. 5 00:02:33,150 --> 00:02:37,060 Personally, I have no further interest in this sort of industry 6 00:02:37,310 --> 00:02:41,539 Or rather, the important thing is not that I myself have no interest in it, 7 00:02:41,909 --> 00:02:46,580 but that it no longer matters to all those people whose work is based on a project... 8 00:02:47,349 --> 00:02:52,469 aiming for a transformation of industrial structures on terms that go beyond... 9 00:02:53,469 --> 00:02:57,659 a Ford ideology, or the fundamental premises of the modern age. 10 00:02:59,469 --> 00:03:03,379 Neither ideology nor technology can be thought of as objective. 11 00:03:03,789 --> 00:03:07,699 ideologies are in fact an attempt to condition or pre-shape reality. 12 00:03:08,069 --> 00:03:13,819 Technology is something that humans have created and it incorporates the fact... 13 00:03:14,430 --> 00:03:18,979 that it can be commanded, as well as the room to allow for self-expression. 14 00:03:19,750 --> 00:03:24,610 What we have to do now is a question of pushing back command structures, 15 00:03:25,069 --> 00:03:27,659 and of further promoting expression. 16 00:03:28,430 --> 00:03:33,659 I myself grew up at a time when work still was a matter of producing... 17 00:03:34,310 --> 00:03:40,780 merchandise with essentially physical tools. 18 00:03:49,310 --> 00:03:52,819 It used to be said, for example, that workers have calloused hands. 19 00:03:54,110 --> 00:04:01,900 So for me it was quite a shock, in the 1970ies, to see these things starting to change dramatically. 20 00:04:05,710 --> 00:04:09,620 But the most important thing that began to change was that the new workforce, 21 00:04:09,830 --> 00:04:14,770 the younger workers that Fiat was starting to hire, were no longer immigrant workers from the south, 22 00:04:15,949 --> 00:04:21,220 those workers who had practically been peasant farmers before being sent to look for jobs in the factories. 23 00:04:21,589 --> 00:04:26,819 The new workforce consisted of the children of that first generation of Fiat workers; 24 00:04:28,149 --> 00:04:33,170 all of them had gone to school, they all had high-school diplomas, 25 00:04:34,310 --> 00:04:38,220 and many had gone to college. 26 00:04:38,430 --> 00:04:42,459 There had been a real anthropological shift, and the change was quite profound. 27 00:04:43,829 --> 00:04:50,009 So, yes, this new generation of workers had no other choice but to wage the battle... 28 00:04:50,470 --> 00:04:54,699 for better salaries - since money is something you have to have, 29 00:04:54,910 --> 00:04:58,819 you cannot live without, a perfectly basic survival tool... 30 00:04:58,990 --> 00:05:02,899 but they were starting to put up a fight for more than that. 31 00:05:03,189 --> 00:05:07,579 They were beginning to understand that machines could be made in different ways; 32 00:05:07,829 --> 00:05:11,740 and that money was more than just a question of basic survival. 33 00:05:12,069 --> 00:05:15,980 Their need for money was also a question of being able to continue to study, 34 00:05:16,189 --> 00:05:19,180 of a continuing process of education. 35 00:05:19,430 --> 00:05:23,339 The dreams and desires of these people had changed very profoundly. 36 00:05:25,230 --> 00:05:29,139 In the 1970s workers were asking for pay raises, 37 00:05:29,709 --> 00:05:33,620 for better salaries, for a redistribution of profits, 38 00:05:35,029 --> 00:05:41,259 for a redistribution of the surplus value extracted from their work 39 00:05:42,069 --> 00:05:45,980 from the time they spent at work. 40 00:05:48,709 --> 00:05:57,449 Today it's clear to everybody that salaries are something that has to do with your training and expectations, 41 00:05:58,350 --> 00:06:03,370 with the way you live, with the way you'll grow old and retire, 42 00:06:03,790 --> 00:06:07,980 it's a question of the shape your whole life takes. 43 00:06:08,149 --> 00:06:10,899 Everything depends on what you're being paid. 44 00:06:11,149 --> 00:06:14,259 And the forms of labour activism take this into account: 45 00:06:14,430 --> 00:06:18,379 the struggle grows ever more social, and concerns itself 46 00:06:18,550 --> 00:06:23,379 for example, not only with the problem of pay, the salary problem, 47 00:06:23,629 --> 00:06:26,379 but also with the problems of war and peace, 48 00:06:26,550 --> 00:06:31,220 of the way we conceive of society, of the ecological future, of everything. 49 00:06:31,389 --> 00:06:34,379 All these things become elements of the struggle, 50 00:06:34,550 --> 00:06:40,019 and the site of the struggle is no longer the factory, or a single, smallish group of people, 51 00:06:40,230 --> 00:06:43,769 but must be a part, of the struggles of a world-wide multitude. 52 00:07:25,509 --> 00:07:30,629 We, in fact, foresaw the scope of the kind of struggle I've been describing: 53 00:07:31,670 --> 00:07:36,899 from the Los Angeles battles of 1992 to the Tienanmen revolt, 54 00:07:38,750 --> 00:07:43,500 from Chiapas to the France of 1995, 55 00:07:45,069 --> 00:07:49,540 and then in general to all the enormous conflicts that came to a head in the wake... 56 00:07:49,750 --> 00:07:54,660 of the collapse of the Soviet Union and its entire system of command. 57 00:07:56,829 --> 00:08:02,819 We took a good deep look at each of these struggles, one right after the next, 58 00:08:03,029 --> 00:08:07,699 and were able to grasp a few of the characteristics they had in common. 59 00:08:07,990 --> 00:08:11,100 But still we couldn't see them as only a single thing, 60 00:08:11,389 --> 00:08:15,980 even if in fact they all departed from the bottom up, as grass-roots phenomena, 61 00:08:16,629 --> 00:08:20,540 and all came about at certain moments in a specifically capitalist development. 62 00:08:21,189 --> 00:08:26,050 The revolts of native peoples, the battle against racism, and many other struggles besides, 63 00:08:26,470 --> 00:08:33,970 they all seemed directed toward the same goals, and yet didn't share that consciousness. 64 00:08:37,389 --> 00:08:41,299 But then, in the wake of Seattle, these various movements began to behave... 65 00:08:41,549 --> 00:08:46,940 as though they were faced with a single adversary, and with a single imperial power. 66 00:08:47,629 --> 00:08:52,539 So if you link this awareness to another series of highly important elements, 67 00:08:52,750 --> 00:08:56,500 such as the new quality of work... 68 00:08:57,309 --> 00:09:01,220 and the bio-political dimensions of human activity, 69 00:09:01,509 --> 00:09:05,419 that'll be the point at which we start to grasp the notion of the multitude. 70 00:09:06,149 --> 00:09:10,059 As things grow ever more globalized there's also more apartheid. 71 00:09:10,309 --> 00:09:13,779 The world runs on hierarchies. 72 00:09:17,029 --> 00:09:21,940 For as long as there's a system of capitalism, a system of exploitation, 73 00:09:22,149 --> 00:09:28,250 it's clear that the fact that people are ever more equal, or ever more the same... 74 00:09:28,429 --> 00:09:34,259 all of us are summoned to production, to the very same degree that we, in fact, exist... 75 00:09:35,669 --> 00:09:41,220 and the fact, also, that the social order has become a bio-political order, 76 00:09:41,669 --> 00:09:47,100 it's clear that these things go hand in hand with a system of command that has to function as a hierarchy, 77 00:09:47,269 --> 00:09:51,179 with internal hierarchies, global hierarchies, spatial hierarchies, 78 00:09:51,590 --> 00:09:58,740 hierarchies of knowledge, of images, of language, of education and finally you've got apartheid. 79 00:10:00,110 --> 00:10:04,019 We reach levels of exclusion which actually go so far. 80 00:10:04,629 --> 00:10:06,659 And that's a paradox. 81 00:10:07,070 --> 00:10:11,340 Because all these things are taking place, at a time when the world is all-inclusive 82 00:10:11,509 --> 00:10:14,299 and there's no place anywhere that isn't a part of it. 83 00:10:14,470 --> 00:10:17,299 So inclusion in the world is a life necessity, 84 00:10:17,470 --> 00:10:22,299 and any exclusions and hierarchies appear all the more cruel and ferocious. 85 00:10:24,990 --> 00:10:28,899 Politics and the lives we live are by now entirely intertwined. 86 00:10:29,350 --> 00:10:32,179 They make up only one great structure. 87 00:10:32,350 --> 00:10:37,179 This is the way we live, so we can't draw distinctions between economics and politics; 88 00:10:38,509 --> 00:10:41,460 economics and politics are one and the same thing, 89 00:10:42,149 --> 00:10:46,059 and this is the reality in which we have to move. 90 00:11:24,309 --> 00:11:28,220 I have always tried not to think of myself as a ''radical,'' 91 00:11:28,509 --> 00:11:33,450 even if the things I have to say are expressions of radical positions; 92 00:11:34,149 --> 00:11:39,169 and these, in fact, are the kinds of positions I've always tried to promote. 93 00:11:42,269 --> 00:11:44,860 I have always tried to be a voice, 94 00:11:45,070 --> 00:11:50,190 and thereby to function as an element that acts in accordance with others. 95 00:11:50,789 --> 00:11:54,779 So whenever people call me a ''radical'' that makes me a little nervous. 96 00:11:55,029 --> 00:11:57,899 Because I'm not at all an anarchist. 97 00:11:58,429 --> 00:12:02,940 When you call yourself a ''radical'' you're connecting up to anarchical traditions... 98 00:12:03,110 --> 00:12:07,779 which at times assert - in schools of anarchical individualism - 99 00:12:07,950 --> 00:12:14,289 that rebellion on the part of the individual is a value in its very own right. 100 00:12:16,070 --> 00:12:18,259 I don't feel that way. 101 00:12:18,429 --> 00:12:23,779 Rebellion, for me, can only be collective, and it has to be constructive 102 00:12:23,950 --> 00:12:28,299 or directed toward the building of another world, another reality. 103 00:12:30,950 --> 00:12:34,860 If there's something I'm proud of it's precisely the fact... 104 00:12:34,990 --> 00:12:39,179 of having always been a radical voice, but not in any individualistic way. 105 00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:43,980 I have always wanted to play my part within a group, within the masses, 106 00:12:44,190 --> 00:12:47,419 and especially as part of a multitude: these are places where individuality, 107 00:12:47,590 --> 00:12:51,100 or singularity, continue to exist, but only by virtue of their being shared by everyone. 108 00:12:51,669 --> 00:12:56,500 It seems to me that there's something very beautiful in this image of groups of crystals. 109 00:12:57,470 --> 00:13:04,139 Because crystals don't refer back to themselves, since each is a reflection of another. 110 00:13:07,309 --> 00:13:11,460 So, there's a kind of singularity here which has nothing to do with individuality. 111 00:13:12,509 --> 00:13:16,419 Individuality is a feature of something that lives on its own 112 00:13:16,830 --> 00:13:22,340 but if I put one crystal next to another, the crystal presents itself as singular... 113 00:13:22,509 --> 00:13:27,450 only insofar as it reflects its neighbour, and on and on, all the way back to infinity. 114 00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:33,019 For instance, when I talk about a multitude... 115 00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:36,299 I'm talking, in fact, about a group of singularities. 116 00:13:36,470 --> 00:13:41,700 These singularities don't exist in the way that individuals are classically thought to exist, 117 00:13:41,870 --> 00:13:45,779 as something with a substance all its own. 118 00:13:46,830 --> 00:13:51,059 Here it's a question of singularities that only exist as parts of relationships, 119 00:13:51,230 --> 00:13:55,779 or only insofar as they reflect one another, or place themselves in a mutual relationship. 120 00:13:55,990 --> 00:14:00,850 This is what's absolutely fundamental, the fact that a crystal is also a crystal... 121 00:14:01,029 --> 00:14:07,659 with an ability to exist in relationships, and not simply to exist for itself alone.